(no subject)

[sekritomg]

The chances of Stan and Kyle having an mpreg baby with red hair are pretty low. Though negniahn points out to me that both Stan's Uncle Jimbo and Aunt Flo have red hair, I would argue that Jimbo's hair is more brownish than not. Also, Aunt Flo is an old woman so she's probably dyeing her hair. I have pointed out that Aunt Flo is actually a personification of Stan's mother's period, to which negniahn has argued that "Kyle is the personification of everyone's period," which I guess is a fair point. But even if Aunt Flo's hair was actually red, she's Stan's great aunt (or maybe great-great aunt?), which means the genetic link between them isn't that close. So, sure, it's possible that Stan and Kyle's mpreg baby might have red hair, but, look, probably not.

Comments

[http://users.livejournal.com/_confunded_/]

I always imagined their mpreg baby would have messy black hair and green eyes. Obviously if it was a boy he'd get made fun of every day in school for looking like Harry Potter, so when he ends up needing glasses he throws a giant temper tantrum and Kyle's like "maybe we should get him contacts" and Stan's like "Dude he's six years old."

But at the same time, mpreg is unrealistic in itself and we're going to ignore genetics anyway by imagining a world where this is possible. It ends up being okay, imo, to ignore how dominant and recessive genes work... because whatever, it's mpreg, logic has already been abandoned. RED HAIR FOR EVERYBODY!

[sekrit-omg.livejournal.com]

Kyle would almost certainly want to offer his child contacts and a nose job at age 6. "He won't suffer like I suffered!" etc.

Yes, I know. I suppose it comes down to two things for me:

1. I see no reason why genetics wouldn't apply to mpreg? Yes, it's some sciencey/magical AU technology, but if Stan and Kyle are going to have a biobaby then surely the laws of genetics would apply anyhow. I don't know why I feel this way since it makes no sense, but, that's just how I approach it.

2. I just don't think they would have a child with red hair! Perhaps I'm against the fetishizing of red hair in general.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_confunded_/]

But their mystical mpreg baby must be a special snowflake!!!!!!

Seriously though, I totally get where you're coming from. Even if the actual act of mpreg is ludicrous, it's best to keep some semblance of realism involved.

[sekrit-omg.livejournal.com]

Well, duh, it would be a special snowflake by virtue of being Stan and Kyle's ass baby. What else is there?

[http://users.livejournal.com/_confunded_/]

True, true.

[hey-feygele.livejournal.com]

Iirc, there is more than one gene that determines hair color. The gene for red hair is separate from genes that determine if your hair is blond or dark or whatever. So somebody who has genes for blond hair, but also has genes for red hair, winds up with the typical ginger red hair. But somebody who has genes for brown hair as well as genes for red hair would wind up with auburn hair. And with black hair I don't think you can tell if redness is expressed or not?? but it's been a long time since intro to biology, I don't really remember??

In conclusion: Stan and Kyle's mpreg babies probably still won't have red hair, because looking at Stan's family it doesn't seem like he's likely to pass on any blond hair genes. Even if you count Jimbo's hair, Stan clearly got his dark hair from his dad, so whatever recessive lighthairedness might have been hiding in his dad's family tree wasn't passed on. Auburn/red-brown/whatever you call it is still a possibility though I think??

[sekrit-omg.livejournal.com]

>> there is more than one gene that determines hair color

This is interesting and I actually hadn't heard it before. I am very interested in red hair and have always enjoyed hearing people in the fandom discuss it. I've never taken genealogy so the only thing I can add is that I know for a fact that if Stan doesn't have red hair, and neither of his parents has red hair, and it's unknown whether any of his grandparents have red hair, it's difficult for me to feel comfortable with the number of S/K babies that seemingly have red hair. I mean, this is all just pretend, right, like I don't think the kind of black hair Stan has even exists in reality. I guess anything's possible? People are just very into them having a red-haired baby. I'm curious as to why. I always figured their mpreg child would be, like, brown-haired.

[brimbelle.livejournal.com]

AH I've been talking a little about the probability of Kyle having a redhead baby with someone in the fandom like maybe two weeks ago ! I can't remember who, maybe Kayotics? Anyway, I'm glad you bring up the conversation too!

I agree with hey_feygele for everything. The gene mutations for red hair make people unable to synthetize eumelanin but since there's more than one gene for hair color, it is still possible for them to synthetize it and so having auburn hair/dark hair instead of red hair. Kyle's hair are quite dark, so I'm pretty sure he's still synthetizing eumelanin and thus I would theorize that he doesn't have only genes coding for red hair but at least one gene variant coding for another colour than red, which lowers even more the probability of Stan and him having a redhead baby.
I would love to know more about Sharon's parents though, because since Stan has very dark hair maybe he's carrying a red hair gene and we just can't see it??
So yeah, basically, Stan and Kyle would very probably have a dark-haired baby, but I believe in the magic of mpreg and cross my fingers for a baby with multicoloured hair.

(oh man I hope I'm making sense. I especially didn't take the Genetics class in Sweden because I didn't want to deal with genetics in English, aand here I am. Sometimes I'm really embarrassed with everything I do for South Park)

And lol I stumbled upon this study (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19571053) while researching for red hair genes, and "People with naturally red hair are resistant to subcutaneous local anesthetics and, therefore, may experience increased anxiety regarding dental care."
That was unexpected.

[sekrit-omg.livejournal.com]

Yes, you are making sense! Your English is really very good, better than that of some native English-speakers. Anyone theoretically could carry a red-hair gene, right? I am sure it's possible for them to have a red-haired baby! I suppose what I'm most interested in at this point in the conversation is why people want Kyle and Stan to have a redheaded baby?

>> may experience increased anxiety regarding dental care

Ugh, I can relate to that, I have extreme anxiety about my teeth. I floss like four times a night.

[brimbelle.livejournal.com]

"why people want Kyle and Stan to have a redheaded baby?"

I think it has something to do with Kyle's hair being an important part of Kyle's being? (lol) I mean, I don't think we've heard Stan talking about his hair in the show while Kyle complained a few times about them, and since his hair is quite uncommon (the colour and the "fro") maybe it's like, symbolic for people to give his child red hair too. "It really is Kyle's child" or something like that.

[sekrit-omg.livejournal.com]

You know, this is an interesting idea. I had just assumed it was about people finding redheads interesting, or something. Not in the sense that Kyle's hair is key to his identity (it sort of is) but more in the sense that if you have an mpreg baby it had to be special and red hair is special! Or something like that. Meanwhile, you're right, Stan clearly doesn't give a shit about his hair either in the sense that he wants people to see it (I mean, he wears a hat indoors most of the time) or feels much angst about disliking his hair. So I can see what you're saying, yeah.

[formerdinosaur.livejournal.com]

WELL I can't help but feel that this is a criticism of my decision to give them a red haired baby in the long mpreg fic, and how dare you.

However, I DO typically envision them with a black haired male baby, so that was an exception to my usual rule. On a more personal note, I remember once asking you who in your family passed on your red hair and I believe you said it was nobody in particular, so anything's possible, miss.

[sekrit-omg.livejournal.com]

This entire entry was actually a direct response to some conversation I was having with negniahn! Mostly I wanted to get the "Kyle is everyone's period" comment in there. Clearly I have been paid back for this post by getting the period from hell, so, there you go.

>> anything's possible

I actually had a great grandparent on each side of my family with red hair! So it didn't come from nowhere, exactly, but I do understand that even the unlikeliest genetic scenarios do play out from time to time.

[formerdinosaur.livejournal.com]

Oh I know, I'm just teasing - sorry your period's been so miserable, bleh.

Maybe Stan's grandma had red hair ... semi-related has anyone ever worked out the deal with Jimbo being a half-brother? I wrote up a big 'headcanon' about it once and then was like 'what am I doing'

[http://users.livejournal.com/_confunded_/]

I'm pretty sure that Jimbo and Randy have the same mother but Marvin is just Randy's father, making Grandma Marsh from Facebook their mother. Her hair was completely white so it is pretty likely that she had blonde, red, or light brown hair, which makes Jimbo's hair color make sense. Marvin's few remaining hairs are really dark, so that explains Randy and by extension Stan. Jimbo's older (right?), so Grandma Marsh probably had a first husband before Marvin. But then again, Randy and Sharon were apparently at Woodstock so maybe Jimbo isn't much older. The SP timeline is so dumb, though. I refuse to believe Randy and Sharon are that fucking old to have been adults at Woodstock, especially since Randy was in a boy band at 18 and the Ghetto Avenue Boys were CLEARLY from the 80's. I guess the "Woodstock" they went to could have been one of the later Woodstocks, not THE Woodstock. Idk how I got onto this train of thought from talking about Jimbo.

[sekrit-omg.livejournal.com]

Or, another theory, Jimbo could be a step-brother to one of Stan's parents. I have an uncle who is actually my father's step-brother. Ugh, I bet M&T have never invested even the time it's taken my to type these three sentences in how Stan and Jimbo are actually related.

>> I refuse to believe Randy and Sharon are that fucking old to have been adults at Woodstock, especially since Randy was in a boy band at 18 and the Ghetto Avenue Boys were CLEARLY from the 80's

This is one of my absolute favorite continuity contradictions in SP. It kind of reminds me of how the Simpsons has been on the air long enough that near the beginning of its run Homer and Marge would have been in high school in the 1970s and more recently they must have been there in the 1990s and I think the show has done episodes reflecting that. That said, the SP continuity disjunction is much weirder. I am pretty sure the Woodstock they're depicted being at would have to be the original in 1969. That's the one that's most associated with hippies, after all.

Ugh, I was going to do some janky head math on this for no reason. Okay. So let's say Sharon and Randy are 18 at Woodstock in 1969. This makes them born about 1951. If they have an 8-year-old son in 1997 that means Stan was born in 1989, which would make them 38 at the time. If Shelly is about four years older than Stan she wold have been born in 1985, which makes Sharon and Randy about 34 when she is born, which is not that unreasonable, especially if you consider they are (or Randy is) relatively educated, and educated people tend to have children later in life.

If Randy is 18 in the late 1980s then Stan is basically born when he is more or less in his late teens or early 20s, which puts Shelly's birth when he is like 15 or 16, which is just weird and unlikely. I suppose if you follow the original timeline of the show (i.e. Stan is 8 in 1997) it makes more sense for them to have been at Woodstock than for Randy to have been in a NKOTB-type boy band.

Why did I write this up and what purpose does it serve?

????

[sekrit-omg.livejournal.com]

Is it ever actually said that Jimbo is Stan's biological uncle? Maybe he's just a really close friend of the family? I mean, it doesn't actually appear that way, as he's not around a lot, but conceivably Jimbo might just be Randy's really close friend and is called "uncle" out of respect or whatever. I'm also not sure there's any reason why he couldn't be Sharon's half-brother. I mean, unless there's a clearer reference from some older episode I haven't seen in a while that outlines this more closely.

[formerdinosaur.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure what the evidence is - I just remember suggesting that he was Sharon's brother and being told that NO, he was obviously Randy's half-brother!

[sekrit-omg.livejournal.com]

I should obviously spend the rest of my week re-watching SP episodes to try to get to the bottom of it. I wish I had time for that.

[arctickitties.livejournal.com]

"Kyle is the personification of everyone's period" is, by far, the best sentence ever written by anyone ever. I can't stop laughing.

[sekrit-omg.livejournal.com]

I know, right? Funny because it's true.